christianity or islam. what path do you haul your cross through to hit paydirt

[Chris Paul]

at the end of the tunnel. superego, koan and onyiiboy thanks for trying to decipher and demystify issues on this topic in the other thread.

now i think it will be unfair of the lord to, after smacking up flipping and rubbing down our religious choices throw a whole bunch of us in hell fire based on those choices. that will be grossly inhumane.

the honorable carlton pearson said he saw a vision of what heaven and hell is like and that your heaven and hell is on earth based on your deeds and belief system on earth but when all 6 billion of us die we will all go to heaven. hence whatever you are going through now as we speak is either your heaven or hell based on your deeds. karma, if you will. now this makes a lot of sense to me because i refuse to believe that the lord will roast his chillen for eternity in some fire. what yall think ?

and finally superego can i get quran in english ? and can a man practice islam without speaking a lick of arabic ?

[Onyiiboy]

Neither! Both of them are plagiarized versions of African religions. And by the way, "Heaven" and "Hell" are recent inventions.

[Sir Koan]

Neither Christianity (in all its flavors) nor Islam (in the few interpretations of it I understand) has offered me a reasonable concept of divine judgment. At this point, I'm willing to do my best and take my chances with my creator, if It exists, if we meet, and if It cares one way or the other.

I don't even believe in the afterlife, or rather, I don't see it as particularly relevant to me. I practice my Anglican religion to meet my spiritual needs as they are.

[FekNr]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Both of them are plagerized versions of African religions. I like the originals better. And by the way, "Heaven" and "Hell" are recent inventions.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by FekNr

Yes, the Xtian concept of Hell is completely absent from Judaism. It is a European invention. And "Heaven" in Judaism is different then "Heaven" in Xtianity.

[FekNr]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Yes, the Xtian concept of Hell is completely absent from Judaism. It is a European invention. And "Heaven" in Judaism is different then "Heaven" in Xtianity.

You seem to lump all of Judaism into one category. Shey you know there are different types?

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by FekNr

You seem to lump all of Judaism into one category. Shey you know there are different types?

Yes I am aware of that. And that doesn't change what I have said. There is no mention of "Hell" in the entire Old Testament. The place where Jews went after they died was "Sheol", which was the grave, and nothing more.And their concept of Heaven is dramatically different then what Xtians think Heaven is. Your so called Hell is based on the Greek underworld, called Hades, plus other places. It is a foreign concept.

[Sir Koan]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Yes, the Xtian concept of Hell is completely absent from Judaism.

True that.

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

It is a European invention.

Nah, it came into the new testament from the zoroastrian tradition and other such eastern ideas of dualism, actions, rewards and punishments. Jesus used it thus.

[FekNr]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Yes I am aware of that. And that doesn't change what I have said. There is no mention of "Hell" in the entire Old Testament. The place where Jews went after they died was "Sheol", which was the grave. And their concept of Heaven is dramatically different then what Xtians think Heaven is.

You really need to speak to a Messianic Jew they will tell you differently.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by FekNr

You really need to speak to a Messianic Jew they will tell you differently.

Those guys are nuts! And speaking of Messiahs....

[Sir Koan]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Yes I am aware of that. And that doesn't change what I have said. There is no mention of "Hell" in the entire Old Testament. The place where Jews went after they died was "Sheol", which was the grave, and nothing more.And their concept of Heaven is dramatically different then what Xtians think Heaven is. Your so called Hell is based on the Greek underworld, called Hades, plus other places. It is a foreign concept.

Actually, Jewish Sheol and Greek Hades have more in common with each other than either one have with Christian Hell.

-Everyone goes to Sheol and Hades. Only the "wicked" go to hell.
-Yes Sheol and Hades are scary and bad, but there is no alternative.

The idea of a division between the good and bad dead is one that came definitely from the East, not Europe. The Europeans at most shared the Egyptian idea of bad ppl being eaten or abandoned in the underworld, but even that is fringe.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by Sir Koan

Nah, it came into the new testament from the zoroastrian tradition and other such eastern ideas of dualism, actions, rewards and punishments. Jesus used it thus.

When Yeshua (Jesus) spoke about "Hell", he was referring to Gehenna, which was a trash dump outside of the city. It was a metaphor about a mind state, not a physical place, like Xtians would have you believe.

[Clockwatcher]

Koan, I started Time Traveller's Wife... the book they gave me (from the lib) is so freaking huge... interesting so far... but reads like a romance novel right now.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by Sir Koan

Actually, Jewish Sheol and Greek Hades have more in common with each other than either one have with Christian Hell.

-Everyone goes to Sheol and Hades. Only the "wicked" go to hell.
-Yes Sheol and Hades are scary and bad, but there is no alternative.

Yeah you're right. But in Hades, the wicked were punished. I do recall reading some of the Greek myths were people would have to spend eternity pushing a stone up a mountain only to have it roll back down.

Originally Posted by Sir Koan

The idea of a division between the good and bad dead is one that came definitely from the East, not Europe. The Europeans at most shared the Egyptian idea of bad ppl being eaten or abandoned in the underworld, but even that is fringe.

The Egyptians also believed in reincarnation, while the Greeks did not, to my knowledge.

[Onyiiboy]

By the way, speaking of the Jewish version of Heaven:

1. It had 7 levels to it (Hence the phrase "7th Heaven")
2. Human beings for the most part were not allowed to go there (although there were a few exceptions like Enoch and Elijah)
3. It is described in the Book of Enoch, one of the banned books of the Bible.
4. Jews nowadays don't believe in Heaven, but rather "the world to come"