There's something about Mary

[Boss]

Catholics are perhaps the only religious denomination that pay reverence to this woman and the supernatural circumstance of her conceiving.

This worship by the catholic church is perhaps one of the most controversial practices condemned by non-catholics.

The misconception about the Catholic church is that it worships the church. As a born Catholic, I can attest that the doctrine and theory of the Catholic church is to revere her as the mother of God, not worship her. Essentially, it means the Catholic church by theory respects her position as the mother of Jesus Christ. Of course, there are bad sects with in the Catholic church who push this reverence to the limit by absolutely worshiping Mary. But like any group of peoples, you would always find the weeds.

Taking a look at this reverence of Mary, one wonders what is really wrong about showing respect to Mary?

I am certainly ambivalent about the issue being a born catholic and being one who has walked away entirely from the Christian religion.

The first point of view on the argument is the role as the mother. One can not deny a mother's role in the growth of a child. The mother being responsible for the affection, conscience among other things. We can agree the influence of the mother on a child is very strong. If Jesus Christ was born into a royal family, a family of Pharisees or High Priests or into the loving arms of Jezebel, I believe we would not be practicing the Christian religion.

Mary raised Jesus Christ even after the death of Joseph and perhaps unconsciously prepared him for his ministry through his upbringing.

However, we have the flip side point of view. In history, great men have always been celebrated, not their spouses, not their children, neither their parents. Shakespeare, Nkrumah,David, Moses, Buddha,John the Baptist etc. How many times have we paid attention to the parents of these people talk less of showing respect or reverence to them? Why should Jesus Christ be an exception?

One may argue that her being a virgin at the time of the conception might be one the reasons why she should be revered. However, that can be argued. The bible was written by men. No one can categorically lay it as a fact that Mary was indeed a virgin. Moreover, the bible has lost of the meaning of its words because of translations over time and the variations of Bible versions that exist One can say the virgin Mary phrase might be a phrase for something else which was itself lost in meaning in our modern version of the bible as we see it. The subject of the veracity of the Immaculate Conception is quite impertinent and can be discussed at a later time at your convenience.

However, when it is all said and done, one can not downplay her role as a mother. Even Jesus himself alluded to that. One should not bash any church based on assumed and ignorant facts as well. The Catholic Church does in fact have its faults, but tell me one church that doesn't?

[omonija]

to me, the problem isn't the honour of mary; in fact, she should be looked up to by women. the issue is that many percieve that catholics pray to God through mary, and give her more adoration than they do to Jesus.

essentially, there are a lot of religious practices within the catholic church which conflict with the essence of salvation and christianity.

[Boss]

Originally Posted by omonija

to me, the problem isn't the honour of mary; in fact, she should be looked up to by women. the issue is that many percieve that catholics pray to God through mary, and give her more adoration than they do to Jesus.

essentially, there are a lot of religious practices within the catholic church which conflict with the essence of salvation and christianity.

I'm just wondering, did u read everything i wrote?

[omonija]

i assume this was the crux of your post:

Taking a look at this reverence of Mary, one wonders what is really wrong about showing respect to Mary?

and i decided to post what i think the real issue behind the criticism of the catholic church.

if i'm wrong and didn't read correctly, so be it. my bad. i was just giving my opinion on that particular question.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by Boss

Catholics are perhaps the only religious denomination that pay reverence to this woman and the supernatural circumstance of her conceiving.

This worship by the catholic church is perhaps one of the most controversial practices condemned by non-catholics.

The misconception about the Catholic church is that it worships the church. As a born Catholic, I can attest that the doctrine and theory of the Catholic church is to revere her as the mother of God, not worship her. Essentially, it means the Catholic church by theory respects her position as the mother of Jesus Christ. Of course, there are bad sects with in the Catholic church who push this reverence to the limit by absolutely worshiping Mary. But like any group of peoples, you would always find the weeds.

Taking a look at this reverence of Mary, one wonders what is really wrong about showing respect to Mary?

I am certainly ambivalent about the issue being a born catholic and being one who has walked away entirely from the Christian religion.

The first point of view on the argument is the role as the mother. One can not deny a mother's role in the growth of a child. The mother being responsible for the affection, conscience among other things. We can agree the influence of the mother on a child is very strong. If Jesus Christ was born into a royal family, a family of Pharisees or High Priests or into the loving arms of Jezebel, I believe we would not be practicing the Christian religion.

Mary raised Jesus Christ even after the death of Joseph and perhaps unconsciously prepared him for his ministry through his upbringing.

However, we have the flip side point of view. In history, great men have always been celebrated, not their spouses, not their children, neither their parents. Shakespeare, Nkrumah,David, Moses, Buddha,John the Baptist etc. How many times have we paid attention to the parents of these people talk less of showing respect or reverence to them? Why should Jesus Christ be an exception?

One may argue that her being a virgin at the time of the conception might be one the reasons why she should be revered. However, that can be argued. The bible was written by men. No one can categorically lay it as a fact that Mary was indeed a virgin. Moreover, the bible has lost of the meaning of its words because of translations over time and the variations of Bible versions that exist One can say the virgin Mary phrase might be a phrase for something else which was itself lost in meaning in our modern version of the bible as we see it. The subject of the veracity of the Immaculate Conception is quite impertinent and can be discussed at a later time at your convenience.

However, when it is all said and done, one can not downplay her role as a mother. Even Jesus himself alluded to that. One should not bash any church based on assumed and ignorant facts as well. The Catholic Church does in fact have its faults, but tell me one church that doesn't?

The Roman Catholics love Mary, the "Mother of God", the same way that they used to love Auset, "God the Mother" before they converted to Xtianity.

[DCExplorer]

the catholic church is all about paganistic worship! Mary was a negro, so why depict her as an oyinbo...and the image is being pushed thru out the earth. too many graven images...it's totally against the Lord's commandments.

[DCExplorer]

This is the time the true color of some ppl will be known. The pope don reach yankee, so make una get ready for some serious shit to go down in a few...

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by DCExplorer

the catholic church is all about paganistic worship! Mary was a negro, so why depict her as an oyinbo...and the image is being pushed thru out the earth. too many graven images...it's totally against the Lord's commandments.

Mary was not a Negro. Hebrews were more Asiatic then African.

[Boss]

I think you folks are looking at the wrong thing...quit the Catholic bashing. Stop being self righteous.

[DCExplorer]

The how come Mary, Joseph, and Jesus were able to go down into Egypt to flee King Herod's edict to kill all infants under a certain age. If you say, "Hebrews", then who are they? & where are they today? Here's a hint: Deut. 28:68, Job 30:30, Song of Solomon 1:5-6, Jer. 8:21, Lam. 5:10

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Mary was not a Negro. Hebrews were more Asiatic then African.

[DCExplorer]

there's nothing self-righteous about the commentaries. It's about the TRUTH and speaking TRUTH to power. The catholic religion goes to back ancient Egypt, Babylon, and Canaanite worships. What da hell is an obelisk doing at the Vatican, and the pope is dressed a certain way???

Originally Posted by Boss

I think you folks are looking at the wrong thing...quit the Catholic bashing. Stop being self righteous.

[DCExplorer]

Let this be known, I'm only pointing to the facts. The TRUTH cuts through everything in its path. This is not a holier-than-thou campaign. It's time we take a stand & research all information & ideas presented in the past and present. We can't keep on falling for the shit over & over. It's only the Word of the Most High that can open our inner eyes to their secret plans.

Phallus symbol = obelisk


See the tip of the penis & the balls.



The hats symbolize the the fish god, Dagon



Homosexuality & pedophilia are downlow shits in the roman catholic church. So many children have fallen victims to this...so-called trustworthy jerks masquerading as priests. And by whose authority does the Pope have the right to declare "new sins". Where ever they go, bloodshed follows e.g the Crusades & Conquering of South America. In other words, they back in power, but only for a short time.

[BlueBeauty]

interesting.......

[Sir Koan]

The Eastern Orthodox church also reveres Mary.
Boss, in his first post omonija was not bashing catholicism, he was merely pointing out the main protestant theological deviation from catholicism on the Mary issue: "Holy Mary Mother of God Pray for us sinners now, and in the hour of our death."

Protestant dogma states two things on this issue:

1. The dead cannot intercede for the living.
2. Jesus is God become man, and is therefore the direct link to God, and the immediate destination for prayers.

That is a legit disagreement from both sides, but I am always saddened when it degenerates into talk of catholics worshipping Mary or being demonic etc. It is wrong to say that of a sister church.

[Sir Koan]

Originally Posted by Boss

Catholics are perhaps the only religious denomination that pay reverence to this woman and the supernatural circumstance of her conceiving.

Eastern orthodox do, as do Anglicans and some other protestants. Most christian sects accept the virgin birth and honour Mary.

Originally Posted by Boss

As a born Catholic, I can attest that the doctrine and theory of the Catholic church is to revere her as the mother of God, not worship her. Essentially, it means the Catholic church by theory respects her position as the mother of Jesus Christ. Of course, there are bad sects with in the Catholic church who push this reverence to the limit by absolutely worshiping Mary. But like any group of peoples, you would always find the weeds.

100% Word.

Originally Posted by Boss

Taking a look at this reverence of Mary, one wonders what is really wrong about showing respect to Mary?[...]

The first point of view on the argument is the role as the mother. One can not deny a mother's role in the growth of a child. The mother being responsible for the affection, conscience among other things. We can agree the influence of the mother on a child is very strong. If Jesus Christ was born into a royal family, a family of Pharisees or High Priests or into the loving arms of Jezebel, I believe we would not be practicing the Christian religion.

Mary raised Jesus Christ even after the death of Joseph and perhaps unconsciously prepared him for his ministry through his upbringing.

The protestant argument against this is that the human aspect of Christ's upbringing is underplayed due to his infallibility. He was BORN the son of God, therefore, born perfect. He did not sin, not because of his upbringing, but because of his awareness of his divine nature.

Originally Posted by Boss

However, we have the flip side point of view. In history, great men have always been celebrated, not their spouses, not their children, neither their parents. Shakespeare, Nkrumah,David, Moses, Buddha,John the Baptist etc. How many times have we paid attention to the parents of these people talk less of showing respect or reverence to them? Why should Jesus Christ be an exception?

One may argue that her being a virgin at the time of the conception might be one the reasons why she should be revered. However, that can be argued. The bible was written by men. No one can categorically lay it as a fact that Mary was indeed a virgin. Moreover, the bible has lost of the meaning of its words because of translations over time and the variations of Bible versions that exist One can say the virgin Mary phrase might be a phrase for something else which was itself lost in meaning in our modern version of the bible as we see it. The subject of the veracity of the Immaculate Conception is quite impertinent and can be discussed at a later time at your convenience.

The protestant argument is that she was CHOSEN by the Grace of God, and not by any virtue or power of hers. God chose to have a virgin bear his son, and that was the end of that.

Originally Posted by Boss

However, when it is all said and done, one can not downplay her role as a mother. Even Jesus himself alluded to that. One should not bash any church based on assumed and ignorant facts as well. The Catholic Church does in fact have its faults, but tell me one church that doesn't?

No church is perfect. And I believe that at the end of the day all religious belief is personal and beyond faulting.

However, our christian churches (catholic included) are stuck in this attitude that they each have a monopoly on the truth, or that there even IS a truth over which to have a monopoly. Catholics and protestants both treat religion as an exact science. The problem with exact science is that once there are two contradictory theories, one is false. The problem with religion is that once another sect is false, they are heathen. It's a bad combo.