Atheism

[AfroSoul]

It took me a while to get here but I've decided that I am now an atheist. I was raised in Christian home ( my mother is a born-again Pentecostal and my father goes to a United church), I abandoned Christianity when I was 13 and became interested in religions like Islam and Rastafari (I never actually converted). I was briefly an atheist when I was 14 but I thought the philosophy was cold so I decided that God was an immaterial being who played no role in the material universe but existed to give us spiritual strength. A few days ago I adopted the idea of materialism (that there is only one material universe, nothing supernatural exists). I toyed with the idea that God is love (the idea itself, I had been influenced by Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler, the main character believed that God was change) but reasoned that love comes from the human spirit (figuratively speaking) so 'God' must came from within us.

Atheism is based on logic and science. Religion doesn't have to be the only source of hope, love, joy, morality etc. If African people are going to improve the situation of our continent (or if humans in general are going to improve the situation of the world in general), we should get in the habit of reasoning with logic. More then what I want to be real, I just don't think that there are any supernatural dieties or supernatural world. Are there any other atheists on here?

[RetiredEgo]

Religion, Islam is more logic than science any day. Go here, my website- www.AgainstScience.com, Do not be ignorant/confused, use logic and what requires more intelligent reasoning.

[daddidollars]

Im sorry, but i have to laugh at what you just said , okay mr athiest you are making a lot of sense........i think for me it came when I studied history and began to feel like Christianity was very political...... I dont think a lot of people understand their religions that they are sooooo deep and commited to...... so we will have a little Christianity 101 since I am christian and that is all Ive know, remeber all this is summarized! read mor about this and educate yourself.
1) Hypocracy:- ok so in my church they had the nerve to buy my pastor a benz!, 80000 dollar car with church money???!! I mean start a scholarship fund or something.... after that day sha me I said to hell with them, there is no way they are getting my donation money.! I know not everyones church does ish like that but you gotta admit; its pretty rampant!

2) Roots:- People dont really ask themselves ok, "so how did my religion come about??" well for you Christians let me summarize it for you, The reason why you are a christian today is because the Emperor Constantinople won a battle, and the night before, he had a dream in which he believed that he saw a cross( and oh by the way crucifixtion was the preferred method of execution for the roman empire.) hence he legalized christianity and stopped Christians being persecuted(fed to lions) in the Roman Empire and oh by the way he didnt convert till he was on his death bed! Then for people like me who are Anglican, the reason we are Anglican is because a king(henry VIII) wanted a divorce from his wife and the pope would not give it to him so he said F you to the Pope and started his own church...hence why Anglican services are very similar to Catholic. And for other protestants, [B]google martin Luther or protestant refirmation[/B](I cant type that much)
3) The BIBLE:- Ok so in somewhere around the 1500's, all the bishops and religious folks etc convened in nicea..... hence the council of niccea. they pretty much got together and chose the books which we now call our bible today, books like those writtenwhich were deemed unacceptable were refused. Ok so we also gotta get to the King James Version bible......... Who the F***k is King James that he should tell you what HE thinks is right for you to read.......??
4) Control:- when you think about it, religion is the best law enforcement around, it generally keeps people in check!
5) Afterlife:- heaven does sound pretty good doesnt it , well if I was a peasant in 11th century scotland........ damn rite !

I know some of you will bite my yansh for this but.......

Originally Posted by RetiredEgo

Religion, Islam is more logic than science any day. Go here, my website- www.AgainstScience.com, Do not be ignorant/confused, use logic and what requires more intelligent reasoning.

[daddidollars]

Im sorry, but i have to laugh at what you just said , okay mr athiest you are making a lot of sense........i think for me it came when I studied history and began to feel like Christianity was very political...... I dont think a lot of people understand their religions that they are sooooo deep and commited to...... so we will have a little Christianity 101 since I am christian and that is all Ive know, remeber all this is summarized! read mor about this and educate yourself.
1) Hypocracy:- ok so in my church they had the nerve to buy my pastor a benz!, 80000 dollar car with church money???!! I mean start a scholarship fund or something.... after that day sha me I said to hell with them, there is no way they are getting my donation money.! I know not everyones church does ish like that but you gotta admit; its pretty rampant!

2) Roots:- People dont really ask themselves ok, "so how did my religion come about??" well for you Christians let me summarize it for you, The reason why you are a christian today is because the Emperor Constantinople won a battle, and the night before, he had a dream in which he believed that he saw a cross( and oh by the way crucifixtion was the preferred method of execution for the roman empire.) hence he legalized christianity and stopped Christians being persecuted(fed to lions) in the Roman Empire and oh by the way he didnt convert till he was on his death bed! Then for people like me who are Anglican, the reason we are Anglican is because a king(henry VIII) wanted a divorce from his wife and the pope would not give it to him so he said F you to the Pope and started his own church...hence why Anglican services are very similar to Catholic. And for other protestants, [B]google martin Luther or protestant refirmation[/B](I cant type that much)
3) The BIBLE:- Ok so in somewhere around the 1500's, all the bishops and religious folks etc convened in nicea..... hence the council of niccea. they pretty much got together and chose the books which we now call our bible today, books like those writtenwhich were deemed unacceptable were refused. Ok so we also gotta get to the King James Version bible......... Who the F***k is King James that he should tell you what HE thinks is right for you to read.......??
4) Control:- when you think about it, religion is the best law enforcement around, it generally keeps people in check!
5) Afterlife:- heaven does sound pretty good doesnt it , well if I was a peasant in 11th century scotland........ damn rite !

I know some of you will bite my yansh for this but.......

Originally Posted by RetiredEgo

Religion, Islam is more logic than science any day. Go here, my website- www.AgainstScience.com, Do not be ignorant/confused, use logic and what requires more intelligent reasoning.

[RetiredEgo]

I am a muslim, so I am wisely excluded from all those serious issues, which my Quran first brought to light and corrected u of.

It is unfortunate the thread starter now decides to regress, at a time when modern scientific ability rather makes more and more scientists accept and recognize there must be 'intelligentdesign'.
(Note this concept is new to science, a 19th century phenominal revolution to prior atheist science)

He is going backward.

[RetiredEgo]

it's really unfortunate, I've noticed that wisening up out of the many evil/errors christianity has been embalmed with, leaves such a bad taste in most peoples mouths, and added to their hurt from obvious betrayal, they just can't ever see clear again, and realise the wonder Islam behind the public media beef, trully smartly is. Rather unfortunate.

[BlueBeauty]

Originally Posted by daddidollars

Im sorry, but i have to laugh at what you just said , okay mr athiest you are making a lot of sense........

y r u laughing at the thread starter? Seems like you've both arrived at the same conclusion.

[AfroSoul]

Originally Posted by RetiredEgo

it's really unfortunate, I've noticed that wisening up out of the many evil/errors christianity has been embalmed with, leaves such a bad taste in most peoples mouths, and added to their hurt from obvious betrayal, they just can't ever see clear again, and realise the wonder Islam behind the public media beef, trully smartly is. Rather unfortunate.

Brother (or Sister),

I don't even know where to begin. I could ramble on about this subject, I'm actually trying to give it a rest because I've been thinking about it so much lately, it even kept me up much of the night. My conversion to atheism wasn't based on any anger or resentment towards the idea of God nor on the typical "if there was a God, how could he let people suffer, how could he do this and that etc" arguement, it is based completely on science and logic. Before I was an atheist I was what some people call a deist, I believed in God but that he played no role in the material universe and there was no afterlife. My atheism is just the conclusion to that, I think. Then and now I think that the idea of an afterlife and that God interferes with our material existence is downright dangerous and tragic. It's inevitable that, on some level, if you believe that there is an afterlife, you will take this life for granted.

There are benefits to religion, the positive and optimistic outlook that religion gives people can do wonders for their mental and emotional (and thus, physical) health. However, I refuse to believe that a falsehood can be the only source of hope, optimism, morality and a generally positive way of life. I'm not only against the idea of God fixing our problems in this material universe but even just the idea of an imaginary friend who plays no role in the world but to offer emotional strength and comfort undermines our ability to rely on ourselves for emotional strength and well being. The peace and security that someone gets from prayer doesn't come from any supernatural deity, it comes from within themselves. Rejecting the idea of a supernatural deity and a supernatural world may sound harsh for people who are so used to the idea of religion but, in the long run, it forces us to deal with reality, to rely on ourselves and to value our humanity and our place in this material universe.

Regardless of whether religion is advanatageous or disadvantageous, it is simply not scientifically accurate. Many people think that it's a "matter of faith" (the only evidence for religion is blind faith and speculation) and "it goes beyond science" but when someone makes a statement about the nature of the universe, this is a scientific hypothesis that is either true or it is not. It's speculation but science can never officially disprove the existence of an immaterial, supernatural diety or dimension but science can absolutely prove that we are material beings and that our existence is entirely material. Our mind and our consciousness are the result of electro-chemical activity in our brain (not the supernatural, immaterial entity that religious people call the 'soul'). As individuals, our creators are our parents and as a species, we are the product of evolution, not God. Even if there was an immaterial, supernatural deity and a supernatural dimension, if we are material beings, what relationship would we have to this deity or dimension that we can't even experience? A socio-political view, an opinion about a certain food or music can't be absolutely proven or disproven, the claims that religion makes about the universe are a matter of science.

Atheism is the truth and there's just no way around it. It's based on science and logic, religion is based on superstition, emotion, tradition and dogma. You can find some really interesting videos on Richard Dawkins and atheism on youtube. Sorry to ramble on but I don't think that human beings can be truly free until they learn to accept the truth, religion is like a mental straitjacket.

y r u laughing at the thread starter? Seems like you've both arrived at the same conclusion.

lol, I guess I was just really eager to have a discussion on this.

[RetiredEgo]

Science can not ever prove your existence, its existence, nor the existence of anything. It Never has proved anything absolutely, nor is it ever likely to in our life time. And it knows and even states this fact. That's why science is now looking for and turning to God.

You are so lost, I pity u...and I spend sleepless years on this, u just started. BTW i am a Physician and US qualified Molecular Biologist.

Did u look at my site- www.AgainstScience.com ?

[AfroSoul]

Originally Posted by RetiredEgo

Science can not ever prove your eistence, its existence, nor the excistence of anything. It Never ahs proved anything absolutely, nor is it ever likely to in our life time.

You are so lost.

To quote Rene Descartes (although I am a materialist, not a dualist), "I think, therefore I am". My existence is the only thing that I can absolutely prove (I would have to exist even to question it), for everything and everyone else I have to rely on my 5 senses which (technically) could be wrong. The burden of proof regarding the existence of any supernatural deity lies with those who believe. It's like arguing that science cannot officially disprove the existence of the invisible spaghetti monster, anyone who exercises common sense (at least regarding this topic) realizes that with no evidence for the invisible spaghetti monster, to claim it exists is just speculation. Religious "knowledge" is based on blind faith and speculation. The eternally mysterious " science could never prove or disprove God" dogma is why religion has survived.

Unfortanatly, no matter what either of us says henceforth, we will feel certain that the other side is closeminded to our view.

[BlueBeauty]

.

Originally Posted by Hitchens

..yes there is something wrong with us, we are primate, high primates, but primates. We are 1/2 a chromosome away from chimpanzee and it shows. It especially shows in the number of religions we invent to console ourselves or give us things to quarrel about with other primates.

if there is anything that demonstrates that god is man-made and not man god-made surely its the number of religions erected by this quasi chimp spices and the harm they are willing to inflict on that bases

[daddidollars]

I was laughing at what the guy talking about Islam said........

Originally Posted by BlueBeauty

y r u laughing at the thread starter? Seems like you've both arrived at the same conclusion.

[RetiredEgo]

AfroSoul

I say it is a matter of blind faith ur way or mine. Cuz u, nor any scientist can NEVER prove the reality and existence of science, its principles or any so called material including 'you', any more than I can prove that the Spaghetti monster does exist.

Facts here Sir. Let's put logic on the table. Once u've proved to me that u do exist, and this conversation is indeed hapenning, that u aren't dreaming....with a method better than the 'pinch' method, I will submit to your better phenomenom.

Till then, Religion-science is/has been the safer, more consistent and time trusted 'illusion,' than ur loosing popularity with modern discoveries a-Religion-science.

[daddidollars]

Retired Ego and Afro Soul..... you guys are really smart and very articulate(for real) I need to learn how to write from u guys

[AfroSoul]

I say it is a matter of blind faith ur way or mine. Cuz u, nor any scientist can NEVER prove the reality and existence of science, its principles or any so called material including 'you', any more than I can prove that the Spaghetti monster does exist.

Science is based on what can be tested and proven, religion is a matter of faith. Scientists have proven that our mind and our consciousness are the result of electro-chemical activity in the brain, this isn't a matter of faith and speculation - religion is. To assume that the spaghetti monster exists is a matter of speculation, common sense dictates that something shouldn't be assumed as existing until there is evidence for it.

Facts here Sir. Let's put logic on the table. Once u've proved to me that u do exist, and this conversation is indeed hapenning, that u aren't dreaming....with a method better than the 'pinch' method, I will submit to your better phenomenom.

You have evidence for my existing (your eyes can read the words I've written in this forum), it may not be %100 full proof evidence but it's evidence nonetheless. There is no evidence for any supernatural deity.

Till then, Religion-science is/has been the safer, more consistent and time trusted 'illusion,' than ur loosing popularity with modern discoveries a-Religion-science.

I feel for you because you really don't see the logic in what I'm saying. Religion has been scientifically bunked time and time again. I'll try one more time and then we'll have to "agree to disagree", not because it's a "matter of opinion" (I'm right and you're wrong) but because this isn't getting anywhere.

Science has proven that we are material beings. You exist because your father's sperm fertilized your mother's egg, it was a physical act that brought you into existence (as a species, we are the product of evolution). Our mind and our consciousness (which is really what we are, as people) are the result of electro-chemical activity in the brain. There is no supernatural or immaterial soul that we have, we are just intelligent and self-aware mammals. When our physical brain dies, we lose consciousness (forever), this flat out disproves the idea of an afterlife. Science cannot prove that there are no immaterial, supernatural deities or an immaterial, supernatural dimension of the universe but even if there were, what relationship could we have with them as material beings in this material universe?

Peace unto you, RetiredEgo..

Daddidollars,

Thanks, lol, I'm flattered.