Pope: Other Christians not true churches

[KAG]

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.

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The statement brought swift criticism from Protestant leaders. "It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity," said the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, a fellowship of 75 million Protestants in more than 100 countries.

"It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the reformed family and other families of the church," the group said in a letter charging that the document took ecumenical dialogue back to the era before the Second Vatican Council.

It was the second time in a week that Benedict has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-1965 meetings that modernized the church. On Saturday, Benedict revived the old Latin Mass — a move cheered by Catholic traditionalists but criticized by more liberal ones as a step backward from Vatican II.

Among the council's key developments were its ecumenical outreach and the development of the New Mass in the vernacular, which essentially replaced the old Latin Mass.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers its erroneous interpretation by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Benedict headed before becoming pope, said it was issuing the new document Tuesday because some contemporary theological interpretations of Vatican II's ecumenical intent had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

The new document — formulated as five questions and answers — restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

The commentary repeated church teaching that says the Catholic Church "has the fullness of the means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy's Dolomite mountains.

The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles — and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said.

The Rev. Sara MacVane, of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said that although the document contains nothing new, "I don't know what motivated it at this time."

"But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglicans and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics," she said.

The document said that Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," said a commentary from the congregation that accompanied the text.

Despite the harsh tone, the document stressed that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants, but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The top Protestant cleric in Benedict's homeland, Germany, complained the Vatican apparently did not consider that "mutual respect for the church status" was required for any ecumenical progress.

In a statement titled "Lost Chance," Lutheran Bishop Wolfgang Huber argued that "it would also be completely sufficient if it were to be said that the reforming churches are 'not churches in the sense required here' or that they are 'churches of another type' — but none of these bridges is used" in the Vatican document.

The Vatican statement, signed by the congregation prefect, American Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Saints Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day.

There was no indication why the pope felt it necessary to release it now, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles.

Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics or that the congregation was sending a message to certain theologians it did not want to single out. Or, it could be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation.

In fact, the only theologian cited by name in the document for having spawned erroneous interpretations of ecumenism was Leonardo Boff, a Brazilian clergyman who left the priesthood and was a target of then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's crackdown on liberation theology in the 1980s.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/...Zg53qv0J7MWM0F

[eby187]

mmh...

indeed catholism is the best religion in the world. Islam too. And the protestants, they got it to the T...and the jews r God's chosen pple, and Hindus will make heaven b4 all of us...

yup...yup...

[BlueBeauty]

Catholics have always felt this way. This is why you would ask a catholic

Q: Are you are Christian?
A: No I am Catholic.

They feel that way, and all other forms of Christianity feel they worship Mary and not Christ.

Seems like a case of the Gloucester calling the Saddleback dirty; they are all PIGS!

[renegade]

Originally Posted by eby187

mmh...

indeed catholism is the best religion in the world. Islam too. And the protestants, they got it to the T...and the jews r God's chosen pple, and Hindus will make heaven b4 all of us...

yup...yup...

Please do not make stupid comparisms and associations.
There is a best way to God, that all ways arent the best doesnt deserve u bringing it down.

By the fruits you shall know that way. Intellectually and spiritually challenge the fruits of the ways, don't bash all ways. Perhaps u might be bringing down something God strongly loves.

[eby187]

Originally Posted by renegade

Please do not make stupid comparisms and associations.
There is a best way to God, that all ways arent the best doesnt deserve u bringing it down.

By the fruits you shall know that way. Intellectually and spiritually challenge the fruits of the ways, don't bash all ways. Perhaps u might be bringing down something God strongly loves.

R u ok? Plz show me where or how i bashed any religion. U need to stop being defensive and chill.

[renegade]

Originally Posted by eby187

R u ok? Plz show me where or how i bashed any religion. U need to stop being defensive and chill.

By mentioning Islam in a thread of this nature. Very degrading.



Let me for instance give you a simple most sensible way/test to prove a way being more excellent than others.

If it is a way different from others, it will have a name. Do you agree.
Now if it is a way different and supposed to be unique, special and different, it shoud have a name. Agree?
Now if it is trully a way set aside by God, it should clearly be given a name/christened and not just nicknamed. Agree?

Because we are talking about ways here, and not periods.
So for instance of all the faiths you just mentioned which one was given a name when founded and wasnt just nicknamed, probably by passer bys or even enemies of it in mockery?

Hindu- Nicknamed by outsiders as a mis-pronunciation of the Sindhu river.
"..Most scholars feel that the name “Hindu” was developed by outsiders, invaders who could not pronounce the name of the Sindhu River properly.." http://www.stephen-knapp.com/about_the_name_Hindu.htm

Catholic- comes from funny places, won't waste my time on that.

Christian- we all know was a nickname given years after Christ died by unbelievers at antioch. Acts 11:19-26

Jew/Judism- named after people who happened to live in the valley of Judea.

Budhist- A nickname given after followers of Budha.


Islam/peace/submission Was the name of the faith Jesus said he came after in the Bible, also Abraham who was a submitter, and so did Mohammed officially canonize it. Joh 14:27, Heb 6:20, Heb 7:1-10 http://understandingchrist.com/badpractices.html

[eby187]

My dear Superego i bet you there are catholics in heaven, jews in heaven, moslems in heaven, and even non-religious pple in heaven. I have never said all religions are good and i also will never say any religion is the best. Many rels. have helped pple draw closer to God and even tho i may disagree with catholicism in a lot of ways i will not completely brush it off because it instilled in me a lot of good lessons abt. God. The best religion in the world is the religion of love. Love and one-ness. Everything else, depending on its nature is just stepping stones that should lead you to the reality of love and one-ness with all. With these two principles you can never go wrong.

Originally Posted by renegade

By mentioning Islam in a thread of this nature. Very degrading.



Let me for instance give you a simple most sensible way/test to prove a way being more excellent than others.

If it is a way different from others, it will have a name. Do you agree.
Now if it is a way different and supposed to be unique, special and different, it shoud have a name. Agree?
Now if it is trully a way set aside by God, it should clearly be given a name/christened and not just nicknamed. Agree?

Because we are talking about ways here, and not periods.
So for instance of all the faiths you just mentioned which one was given a name when founded and wasnt just nicknamed, probably by passer bys or even enemies of it in mockery?

Hindu- Nicknamed by outsiders as a mis-pronunciation of the Sindhu river.
"..Most scholars feel that the name “Hindu” was developed by outsiders, invaders who could not pronounce the name of the Sindhu River properly.." http://www.stephen-knapp.com/about_the_name_Hindu.htm

Catholic- comes from funny places, won't waste my time on that.

Christian- we all know was a nickname given years after Christ died by unbelievers at antioch. Acts 11:19-26

Jew/Judism- named after people who happened to live in the valley of Judea.

Budhist- A nickname given after followers of Budha.


Islam/peace/submission Was the name of the faith Jesus said he came after in the Bible, also Abraham who was a submitter, and so did Mohammed officially canonize it. Joh 14:27, Heb 6:20, Heb 7:1-10http://understandingchrist.com/badpractices.html

[Chickram]

i plan on marryin a roman catolik o. so make una leave my pope alone bikonu

[Chickram]

Originally Posted by BlueBeauty

Catholics have always felt this way. This is why you would ask a catholic

Q: Are you are Christian?
A: No I am Catholic.
They feel that way, and all other forms of Christianity feel they worship Mary and not Christ.

Seems like a case of the Gloucester calling the Saddleback dirty; they are all PIGS!

plz no! dat pesin is jes ignorant dats all. dey jes dont kno dat catholism is christianty. so chill alirru biko.


and NO we dnt worship the Virgin Mary.We adore and respect her as the Mother of Jesus Christ. Just like any one wud like pple to honor and respect their mom. and i wnt even bother goin any further on this.

[Chickram]

Originally Posted by renegade

By mentioning Islam in a thread of this nature. Very degrading.



Let me for instance give you a simple most sensible way/test to prove a way being more excellent than others.

If it is a way different from others, it will have a name. Do you agree.
Now if it is a way different and supposed to be unique, special and different, it shoud have a name. Agree?
Now if it is trully a way set aside by God, it should clearly be given a name/christened and not just nicknamed. Agree?

Because we are talking about ways here, and not periods.
So for instance of all the faiths you just mentioned which one was given a name when founded and wasnt just nicknamed, probably by passer bys or even enemies of it in mockery?

Hindu- Nicknamed by outsiders as a mis-pronunciation of the Sindhu river.
"..Most scholars feel that the name “Hindu” was developed by outsiders, invaders who could not pronounce the name of the Sindhu River properly.." http://www.stephen-knapp.com/about_the_name_Hindu.htm

Catholic- comes from funny places, won't waste my time on that.

Christian- we all know was a nickname given years after Christ died by unbelievers at antioch. Acts 11:19-26

Jew/Judism- named after people who happened to live in the valley of Judea.

Budhist- A nickname given after followers of Budha.


Islam/peace/submission Was the name of the faith Jesus said he came after in the Bible, also Abraham who was a submitter, and so did Mohammed officially canonize it. Joh 14:27, Heb 6:20, Heb 7:1-10 http://understandingchrist.com/badpractices.html

u did exactly wat u asked her not to. degrade other churches. btw where is dat thread about islam sef

[renegade]

Originally Posted by eby187

My dear Superego i bet you there are catholics in heaven, jews in heaven, moslems in heaven, and even non-religious pple in heaven. I have never said all religions are good and i also will never say any religion is the best. Many rels. have helped pple draw closer to God and even tho i may disagree with catholicism in a lot of ways i will not completely brush it off because it instilled in me a lot of good lessons abt. God. The best religion in the world is the religion of love. Love and one-ness. Everything else, depending on its nature is just stepping stones that should lead you to the reality of love and one-ness with all. With these two principles you can never go wrong.

And guess what.
Islam=love, actually is one of the only all accepting, all encompassing religions that actually says- all people who do good in true love of One creator and all man will go to heaven, Moslems, Christians, Jews etc.

I bet I can't convince you that some faiths are light years better than others. And some so called faiths are plain evil and intended to be evil. Guru mahrajiji for instance, I am sure u do not recognize this. It is unfair u bring loving beautiful Islam into a thread of Catholism, a condemning faith as we see heer, which has pagan ideas and worships Idols. But you do not see this. You are learning, and I pray your learning leads you to the one truth.

[renegade]

Originally Posted by Chickram

u did exactly wat u asked her not to. degrade other churches. btw where is dat thread about islam sef

I spoke the truth. I only qualified in ways the members of the faiths will not reject or deny. Truth is always allowed.

[Mumtaz]

My brother this is not the way. Devaluing people and their belief makes us look bad and doesnt bring anyone closer to embracing our beliefs.

Originally Posted by renegade

..

[eby187]

Originally Posted by renegade

And guess what.
Islam=love, actually is one of the only all accepting, all encompassing religions that actually says- all people who do good in true love of One creator and all man will go to heaven, Moslems, Christians, Jews etc.

I bet I can't convince you that some faiths are light years better than others. And some so called faiths are plain evil and intended to be evil. Guru mahrajiji for instance, I am sure u do not recognize this. It is unfair u bring loving beautiful Islam into a thread of Catholism, a condemning faith as we see heer, which has pagan ideas and worships Idols. But you do not see this. You are learning, and I pray your learning leads you to the one truth.

Biko read my post again b4 replyin, thanks. I am learning, amen, thank God. You also need to learn. You need to see yourself as a son of God first b4 as a moslem. And you also need to watch your ego esp. during religious discussions cos you get really heated.

[Chickram]

Originally Posted by Mumtaz

My brother this is not the way. Devaluing people and their belief makes us look bad and doesnt bring anyone closer to embracing our beliefs.