Why Islam is the only faith or world system that provides widow social support

[renegade]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapc...ows/index.html http://newsrescue.com/modules.php?na...windex&catid=2

In Christianity, widows or even the divorced MUST NEVER RE-MARRY!, so they can't sex till they die (remember adultery leads to hell)

Only Islam in its wiseness tried to and teaches the world not to shun the divorced and widows, but since men usually will not marry them as a first wife, allows those who all adult parties, 1st wife etc, agree, to marry these women abandoned by society. That they may have a home, their kids- a father, and legal sex, and not be condemned to a life of adultery.

God/Allah/Elah/Eloi/Elohim is indeed so wise.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by renegade

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapc...ows/index.html http://newsrescue.com/modules.php?na...windex&catid=2

In Christianity, widows or even the divorced MUST NEVER RE-MARRY!, so they can't sex till they die (remember adultery leads to hell)

Only Islam in its wiseness tried to and teaches the world not to shun the divorced and widows, but since men usually will not marry them as a first wife, allows those who all adult parties, 1st wife etc, agree, to marry these women abandoned by society. That they may have a home, their kids- a father, and legal sex, and not be condemned to a life of adultery.

God/Allah/Elah/Eloi/Elohim is indeed so wise.

1. Widows and divorced are two very different scenarios
2. I could have sworn that in Judaism, the widow would be adopted by her brother in law

[renegade]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

1. Widows and divorced are two very different scenarios
2. I could have sworn that in Judaism, the widow would be adopted by her brother in law

Yes, definitely, but they both share some similar abandonment situations, that i am underscoring here.

Interesting, adoption by brother in law is nice for economic aspects of the needed support, it's like western social security, but it doesnt take care in anyway of the Father need, the sex need etc. So adultery will certainly result commonly from that...and maybe incest

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by renegade

Yes, definitely, but they both share some similar abandonment situations, that i am underscoring here.

Interesting, adoption by brother in law is nice for economic aspects of the needed support, it's like western social security, but it doesnt take care in anyway of the Father need, the sex need etc. So adultery will certainly result commonly from that...and maybe incest

When I say adopted, I mean adopted as a wife:

I. Canonical prescriptions concerning widows in the Old Testament refer mainly to the question of remarriage. If a man died without children, his widow was obliged to marry her deceased husband's brother, and if the latter refused to take her to wife he was put to shame before the people (Deut., xxv, 5-10). The high- priest was forbidden to marry a widow (Lev., xxi, 14), but other members of the priesthood were at liberty to take to wife the widow of another priest, but not the widow of a layman (Ezech., xliv, 22). Outside of these prescriptions, there is no law in the Old Testament restricting a widow's remarriage. The support of widows was commended to the charity of the Israelites, and they were to have the gleanings of the cornfields, olive trees, and vineyards (Deut., xxiv, 19-22). In the third year of tithes (or the great tithe) widows were to have their share of the offering (Deut., xxvi, 12), and at the three principal solemnities of the year they were to be invited to feast with the nearest house-holder (Deut., xvi, 11). In the times of the Machabees money was deposited and provisions were kept in the Temple at Jerusalem for the subsistence of widows (II Mach., iii, 10), and the spoils of battle were also shared with them (II Mach., viii, 28). For their protection, there was a prohibition against taking their garments in pawn (Deut., xxiv, 17). In the Book of Job the taking away of a widow's ox for a pledge is considered a wicked action (xxiv,3), from which commentators generally gather that the law of Deuteronomy was later extended to all a widow's possessions. Besides legal prescriptions for the protection of widows, the Old Testament contains many general precepts commending them to the reverence and benevolence of the chosen people and bitter denunciations of their oppressors and defrauders. The lot of the widow in Old Testament times was generally a hard one, and Christ refers to the widow's mite as an offering from the poorest of the poor (Mark, xii, 44). He also strongly denounces the Pharisees: "because you devour the houses of widows" (Matt., xxiii, 14). Under the Old Dispensation some widows devoted themselves to a life of special religious observance, as is recorded of Anna the Prophetess, "who departed not from the temple by fastings and prayers serving night and day" (Luke ii, 37).

http://www.catholicity.com/encyclopedia/w/widow.html

[monblaze]

renegade, where r u getting this info
its silly.

widows n widowers r definately allowed 2 remarry remember "till death do us part" at this point the marriage oath, bond n contract has been broken.

4 divorcees d advice kind of condition of divorce in d bible is if ur spouse cheats n u dont feel right wit d person anymore if u can still stay 2geda if u want n not get a divorce but if not its allowed n in such a case one can remarry bcos theres no spiritual connection anymore...
also when other conditions of the marriage institution is broken one can get a divorce.
but when one divorces bcos he/she feels lyk or u r tired, u shldnt remarry bcos as far as heaven is concerned what God has joined 2geda no man can put asunder 'cept him n he has not yet put asunder so its lyke u r still married n if u remarry its lyke [biased] polygamy which is not allowed.

[renegade]

Ok
Correction

@Onyiboy
well that's a solution, but It's not nice, we had something similar in my African traditional family, my uncle inherited his brothers wife. That is a very harsh solutions many a time.

@monblaze.
U right about the widows, i was wrong for linkng both. My point with the widows is that the society as i said above doesnt help ther marriage, because very few people will ever marry as first wife a widow, especially with couple of children. Statistics and reality supports this. But with polygamy more widows get homes.

Divorced however, are not allowed to marry, no matter the reason, and cheating spouse doesnt remove this restriction. If I am wrong in this, quote from the Bible to disprove it, please. The divorced Chrstian must remain single and lonely till death. That's the true law written in the Bble.

[eby187]

u mean islam the best of all world religions? come on, have you studied all the religions in the world to know this? In fact, can you honestly say you've studied any other religion indepth other than islam and christianity? I believe that when islam appeared for it's time, it was very advanced in a lot of ways, eg, its treatment of women. HOwever, I can't say the same for today.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by eby187

u mean islam the best of all world religions? come on, have you studied all the religions in the world to know this? In fact, can you honestly say you've studied any other religion indepth other than islam and christianity? I believe that when islam appeared for it's time, it was very advanced in a lot of ways, eg, its treatment of women. HOwever, I can't say the same for today.

You know, I actually read somewhere that Arab women had more power before Islam then afterwards...

[renegade]

Originally Posted by eby187

u mean islam the best of all world religions? come on, have you studied all the religions in the world to know this? In fact, can you honestly say you've studied any other religion indepth other than islam and christianity? I believe that when islam appeared for it's time, it was very advanced in a lot of ways, eg, its treatment of women. HOwever, I can't say the same for today.

But who is talking about today? All humans are faliures in thes end times.
I am talking on what the religion demands, not what people do. What is in the Books/was at the begining.
Onyiboy, u can never document ur allegation. B4 Mohammed daughters were buried in Arabia, the world was a filthy mess, women have never been granted more rights than Islam gave them. Not peoples practice, but the faith itself.

If u have any discriminatory facts or evidence to justify ur allegation from Islamic doctrine, please show it. i like facts.

@eby. The major monotheistic faiths, half of humanity= Islam, chrisianity and Judaism= 3billion of the worlds 6 billion peeps.
Of these ONLY ISLAM GIVES WOMEN-

1. The right to decide to divorce ther husband
2. Only Islam and te Quran prescribed inheritance for women
3. Only Islam and the Quran described a compensation that must be given to a divorced wife, if not for her lewdness
4. Only islam provides optional social shelter for widows
5. Only Islam allows a divorced woman equal rights at re-marrying(not sure about Judaism on some of these)
6. Only Islam described punishment including death for a man who rapes a woman, Bibile says she must be made to marry her rapist.
7. Only Islam demanded/stated women must give consent in marriage.
8. Only Islam stated in the Holy Books, that marriage must not be fulfilled till a woman is sexually mature.(not sure of Judaism here..i think they do too, but they are only 2%)

I mean, I need some facts here from other faiths.

Now we see that the other 1.5 of the remaining 3 bllion of earths people, the Indians/Hindu/Budhists, who kill 5,000 women/year for not paying full dowry, because it's their women who pay dowry, also kick out their widows.

Who's left? eby, the Chinese(the other 1.8billion).
Tell me about them.


NB. I believe true Christianity and Judsism which are now largely lost, share all these wonderful things with Islam.

[renegade]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

You know, I actually read somewhere that Arab women had more power before Islam then afterwards...

I am stunned.

Please support this very uncommon allegation, I am hearing for the first time ever. Every encyclopedia, Biography etc of Prophet Mohammed, even written by frank enemies of Islam say something a bit different.



You may want to read this b4 u respond- Women In World History.com

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by renegade

I am stunned.

Please support this very uncommon allegation, I am hearing for the first time ever. Every encyclopedia, Biography etc of Prophet Mohammed, even written by frank enemies of Islam say something a bit different.



You may want to read this b4 u respond- Women In World History.com

Now this source might be biased, but I think it has some truth in it:

http://www.rationalistinternational....041120_en.html

Before the advent of Islam, the pagan Arab women generally enjoyed a respectable status in society; many of them including Khadija - the first wife of the prophet of Islam, had the right to engage in business and choose or dismiss their husbands in a matrilineal fashion; they took part in most activities of war and peace including public worship. In female oriented Arab paganism, goddesses had special status; in Mecca, the female goddess Al-Uzza, in Taif the goddess Al-Lat and in Medina the goddess Manat were the most popular deities, and their statues were most revered while the statue of the stern Allah was almost neglected.

Arab pagan poetry was mostly concerned with the beauty and grace of their women, and the glory of their tribal values in peace and war. And it was only in one predator tribe of Mecca that the evil custom of burying alive of the daughters prevailed. It was highly unusual for a man of pre-Islamic Arab society to have more than one wife in his house; and it is quite certain that polygamy was introduced and encouraged by the prophet after the revelation of Islam. Women were to produce as many Muslims as possible. This ultimately resulted in the degradation in the status of the married woman in the Islamic society. Whereas the pre-Islamic Arab custom allowed many looser forms of marriage on the matrilineal and matri-local tradition that gave the woman freedom and liberty as full human being, however the artificial rules of Islamic nikah reduced marriage to mere sexual and social slavery.

The prophet of Islam, before prophethood, opposed the burying alive of the newborn daughters; he was eager to work for a woman and gladly married a divorced woman. The early Islam continued with most of the pre-Islam tribal traditions; there were no hijabs or veils for women of Madina; and at a later date only the nine wives of prophets were restricted in their social intercourse as their home was constantly full of visitors. However the prophet's women sex-slaves were not restricted in any such manners.

Indeed, the semi-transparent half-face- veil (hijab) was actually a very old custom originating in the Assyrian times, a status symbol and a mark of social distinction for the free women. The pre-Islamic pagan Arab woman of the cities often wore the fashionable semi-transparent half-face veil but the tribal women never did.

Later, Islam added measures for "the preservation of modesty for women" -like casting down their eyes in public, concealing their breasts and jewellery and the likes. However, these restrictions were later extended by the followers of the prophet far beyond his original intentions as expressed in Koran, and remained more or less a permanent fixture of Muslim life thereafter.

[renegade]

so
What does ur article say that contests the historic fact that Islam first ever introduced the concept of womens rights to the world, and is still statistically the society that gives women the best, safest most respected, dignified and protected life statdard overall on Earth today?

Did u read my article?

[renegade]

btw. everyone on Earth used to wear scarfs or veils cuz God started religion with Adam. Even Yorubas wear scarfs. Only moslems and nuns still preserve it. Mohammed, Jesus etc, came not with new things perse, but to preserve the one true way. And scarfs or veils are to protect women, or do u disagree?

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by renegade

so
What does ur article say that contests the historic fact that Islam first ever introduced the concept of womens rights to the world, and is still statistically the society that gives women the best, safest most respected, dignified and protected life statdard overall on Earth today?

Did u read my article?

Your article stated that Islamic women were treated better then European women...around 1000 C.E. It makes no mention of how they were treated prior to Islam...and the idea that it was the first one to introduce the concept of women's rights to the world is crazy! I can think of one religion in particular that gave women more rights then any other.

[renegade]

Onyiboy.

Are u waiting for me to provide ur argument for u?
If u do have a case. Like u said that Mohammed(PBUH) reversed the better conditions b4 him in Arabia, or that any popular faith made more remarkable revolutionary steps, clearly documented, developing womens rights. The onus is on u to state/show.

If u need ur my references on divorce, business, choice on marriage, inheritancinheritance, alimony, husband must give her sex, right to education, etc. I will provide.

Now u provide documentation on same from anyother popular faith that influenced the world from earlier than mine. lemme help u. The Egyptians did a bit.

There is no quarel here. Just facts.