The WORD of GOD in the words of men

[J3D]

The issue on what the Bible is and stands for had been and will always be an extremely crucial topic. The Bible is inspired by God; this statement has drawn variety of definitions on the different concepts of inspiration. Some do not believe the choice of words (used in the Bible) by the human authors is mechanically dictated, but they do dispute the verity that it is plenarily and verbally inspired.

According to the Bible, two words describe the extent of God’s inspiration: verbal and plenary. A more lucid explanation is given in the words of B.B. Warfield, a reformed theologian:

"The Church has always recognized that this conception of co-authorship implies that the Spirit's superintendence extends to the choice of the words by the human authors and preserves its product from everything inconsistent with a divine authorship-thus securing, among other things, that entire truthfulness which is everywhere presupposed in and asserted for Scripture by the biblical writers (inerrancy).
The doctrine of plenary inspiration holds that the original documents of the Bible were written by men, who, though permitted to exercise of their own personalities and literary talents, yet wrote under the control and guidance of the Spirit of God, the result being in every word of the original documents a perfect and errorless recording of the exact message which God desired to give to man." (The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible, p. 173).

Below are briefly summarized evidence to show that the words of the Bible are God-given:

-Jesus indicated that not even the smallest part of a Hebrew word or letter could be broken (Matthew5:18);
-This is the claim of the classical text (2 Timothy 3:16);

-It is the emphatic testimony of Paul that he spoke in "Words ... taught by the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13);

-It is evident from the repeated formula, "It is written";

-Jesus said that which was written in the whole Old Testament spoke of Him (Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Hebrews 10:7);

-The New Testament constantly equates the Word of God with the Scripture (writings of the Old Testament (cf. Matthew 21:42; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 3:16);

-The New Testament refers to the written record as the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2;
Hebrews 5:12);

-And Paul told the Thessalonians, "For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the Word of God" 1 Thessalonians 2:13, NASB);

-Occasionally the writers were even told to "diminish not a word" (Jeremiah 26:2, AV);

-John even pronounced an anathema upon all who would add to or subtract from the "words of the prophecy of this book" (Revelation 22:18, 19).

If the Bible is inspired by God, then it follows that it bears all the attributes of God – including perfection and completion. If God’s existence is daily questioned by men, how much more the works He inspired? Moreover, since it was written through God Spirit’s superintendence, it only makes sense that one only needs the help of God Spirit (Holy Spirit), the promised Teacher, to fully comprehend it – do not be bamboozled into believing anything different.

Peace.

[eby187]

But the bible as we know it today isn't how it was back then. Scriptures have been tampered with, and that's a historical fact. The inconsistencies in the bible are real even from a logical standpoint. Also remember, the scriptures were written for a group of pple at a certain time period and at a certain level of consciousness. Some of the material may apply to us today, but definitely not all of it. God keeps revealing himself/herself today. It didn't stop 2000 years ago and i can assure you, he has updated messages to share with us for this day and age if we would only open our ears and hearts and listen.

[J3D]

Originally Posted by eby187

But the bible as we know it today isn't how it was back then. Scriptures have been tampered with, and that's a historical fact. The inconsistencies in the bible are real even from a logical standpoint. Also remember, the scriptures were written for a group of pple at a certain time period and at a certain level of consciousness. Some of the material may apply to us today, but definitely not all of it. God keeps revealing himself/herself today.

Contrary to your opinion, I believe there are no new revelation rather we have new illumination (especially, when it comes to the word of God) – Rev 22-18-19. The fact that someone invents/builds an aircraft today does not necessarily mean that the law of aerodynamics came into being today. It simply means someone discovers the law; co operates with its principles (or axioms); explores the various ramifications of its functionalities and applies the art and science of it.

I totally disagree with the idea that Jesus died for some group of people at a certain period of time… that is totally not scriptural/biblical. Following that line of thought, I can clearly see why someone would say there are different ‘Christ’s’ and still quote from the same Bible that blatantly refute such claim. God gave His only begotten Son to the world (all generations) once and for all and no other ‘Christ’ (irrespective of their generation) can save – John 14: 1-6, John 10: 1-14.

By inconsistencies I am assuming you are referring to different translations. No one manuscript or translation is inspired, only the original – hence the criterion of granting it is a Bible. However, for all intents and purposes, they are virtually inspired since, with today's great number of manuscripts available for scrutiny, the science of textual criticism can render us an adequate representation. Therefore, we can be assured that when we read the Bible we are reading the inspired Word of God.
Also, it is of monumental importance to identify the extent of inspiration to include every book of Scripture, each part of every book, and every word in each book as given in the original – which include both OT and NT.

It didn't stop 2000 years ago and i can assure you, he has updated messages to share with us for this day and age if we would only open our ears and hearts and listen.

Perhaps, we all have to open our heart to what had already been given (2000 years ago), may be just then and only then would we be able to discover , decode, listen and apply the message that God has for this day and age.

[superego]

J3D

What is 1 john 5:7
Can u quote it from the Bible for me please__________

[monblaze]

all i can say is dat
there hv been different translations n all
so present versions may not b accurate
but u cld always refer 2 classics
lyk king james nd nu king james 4 references
n if u hv ever been ministered 2 by d spirit
u will its not jus ideas dat come
by literal vivid words
so i dont kno how yall gon do it?

[J3D]

Originally Posted by superego

J3D

What is 1 john 5:7
Can u quote it from the Bible for me please__________

A trusted and preferred version (amongst others for me) is KJV – if that’s what you are indirectly asking me. But, I’ll venture to ask what you know/believe about Jesus Christ of the Bible; I believe 1 John 5:7 will make more sense once you answer that question.

[superego]

Originally Posted by J3D

A trusted and preferred version (amongst others for me) is KJV – if that’s what you are indirectly asking me. But, I’ll venture to ask what you know/believe about Jesus Christ of the Bible; I believe 1 John 5:7 will make more sense once you answer that question.

I just wanna know what it is, cuz it reads so many completely different things in different Bibles and is totally erased altogether from the majority of Bible versions.

[eby187]

Originally Posted by J3D

Contrary to your opinion, I believe there are no new revelation rather we have new illumination (especially, when it comes to the word of God) – Rev 22-18-19. The fact that someone invents/builds an aircraft today does not necessarily mean that the law of aerodynamics came into being today. It simply means someone discovers the law; co operates with its principles (or axioms); explores the various ramifications of its functionalities and applies the art and science of it.

I totally disagree with the idea that Jesus died for some group of people at a certain period of time… that is totally not scriptural/biblical. Following that line of thought, I can clearly see why someone would say there are different ‘Christ’s’ and still quote from the same Bible that blatantly refute such claim. God gave His only begotten Son to the world (all generations) once and for all and no other ‘Christ’ (irrespective of their generation) can save – John 14: 1-6, John 10: 1-14.

By inconsistencies I am assuming you are referring to different translations. No one manuscript or translation is inspired, only the original – hence the criterion of granting it is a Bible. However, for all intents and purposes, they are virtually inspired since, with today's great number of manuscripts available for scrutiny, the science of textual criticism can render us an adequate representation. Therefore, we can be assured that when we read the Bible we are reading the inspired Word of God.
Also, it is of monumental importance to identify the extent of inspiration to include every book of Scripture, each part of every book, and every word in each book as given in the original – which include both OT and NT.




Perhaps, we all have to open our heart to what had already been given (2000 years ago), may be just then and only then would we be able to discover , decode, listen and apply the message that God has for this day and age.

I am not saying you should abandon your bible or reject your bible. In fact, I love my bible. I try and read it as much as possible. It contains a lot of valuable insights on how to live a godly life. HOwever, limiting God's wisdom and knowledge to scriptures that were written thousands of years ago by a specific group of pple, and that has been through additions and substractions and numerous translations since then, to me, isn't sensible or wise. New revelations/update revelations appear to pple at different times and place in history according to the level of thier consciousness. I am not saying throw away ur bible, I am just saying there is updated knowledge for pple with a higher level or awareness and consciousness in this day and age. Just open your heart and listen and don't condemn everything that isn't "biblical", which is what most christians tend to do.

[eby187]

Also Christians need to see some of the contradictions that exist in the bible for what it is and stop trying to justify everything blindly. Also there are all kinds of bibles...which bible are we talking abt? which one is true? which one has so called false books or true books? Let's start asking these questions.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by J3D

The issue on what the Bible is and stands for had been and will always be an extremely crucial topic. The Bible is inspired by God; this statement has drawn variety of definitions on the different concepts of inspiration. Some do not believe the choice of words (used in the Bible) by the human authors is mechanically dictated, but they do dispute the verity that it is plenarily and verbally inspired.

According to the Bible, two words describe the extent of God’s inspiration: verbal and plenary. A more lucid explanation is given in the words of B.B. Warfield, a reformed theologian:

"The Church has always recognized that this conception of co-authorship implies that the Spirit's superintendence extends to the choice of the words by the human authors and preserves its product from everything inconsistent with a divine authorship-thus securing, among other things, that entire truthfulness which is everywhere presupposed in and asserted for Scripture by the biblical writers (inerrancy).
The doctrine of plenary inspiration holds that the original documents of the Bible were written by men, who, though permitted to exercise of their own personalities and literary talents, yet wrote under the control and guidance of the Spirit of God, the result being in every word of the original documents a perfect and errorless recording of the exact message which God desired to give to man." (The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible, p. 173).

Below are briefly summarized evidence to show that the words of the Bible are God-given:

-Jesus indicated that not even the smallest part of a Hebrew word or letter could be broken (Matthew5:18);
-This is the claim of the classical text (2 Timothy 3:16);

-It is the emphatic testimony of Paul that he spoke in "Words ... taught by the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13);

-It is evident from the repeated formula, "It is written";

-Jesus said that which was written in the whole Old Testament spoke of Him (Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Hebrews 10:7);

-The New Testament constantly equates the Word of God with the Scripture (writings of the Old Testament (cf. Matthew 21:42; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 3:16);

-The New Testament refers to the written record as the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2;
Hebrews 5:12);

-And Paul told the Thessalonians, "For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the Word of God" 1 Thessalonians 2:13, NASB);

-Occasionally the writers were even told to "diminish not a word" (Jeremiah 26:2, AV);

-John even pronounced an anathema upon all who would add to or subtract from the "words of the prophecy of this book" (Revelation 22:18, 19).

If the Bible is inspired by God, then it follows that it bears all the attributes of God – including perfection and completion. If God’s existence is daily questioned by men, how much more the works He inspired? Moreover, since it was written through God Spirit’s superintendence, it only makes sense that one only needs the help of God Spirit (Holy Spirit), the promised Teacher, to fully comprehend it – do not be bamboozled into believing anything different.

Peace.

Interesting write up. Got a couple of quesitons for you though:

1. When did the BIble become infallible? Before or after the Council of Nicea?
2. Do you think that the people who's writings got included in the Bible thought that their words were infallible and perfect?
3. How do imperfect men create something perfect?
4. Does divine inspiration automatically mean divine translation? How much of the Bible is of God and how much of it has been tainted by the egos of the writers?
5. When you refer to the infallible Bible, which one are you referring to? The Catholic one? The Protestant One? The Ethiopian One? The Orthodox one?
6. Did God also inspire slavery, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, Colonialism, and other events that were orchestrated by people who also felt that the Bible was infallible?
7. How do you account for the inexcusable contradictions found all over the Bible?
8. Would anything really change if the Bible was not the inerrant Word of God?

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by J3D

Contrary to your opinion, I believe there are no new revelation rather we have new illumination (especially, when it comes to the word of God) – Rev 22-18-19. The fact that someone invents/builds an aircraft today does not necessarily mean that the law of aerodynamics came into being today. It simply means someone discovers the law; co operates with its principles (or axioms); explores the various ramifications of its functionalities and applies the art and science of it.

I totally disagree with the idea that Jesus died for some group of people at a certain period of time… that is totally not scriptural/biblical. Following that line of thought, I can clearly see why someone would say there are different ‘Christ’s’ and still quote from the same Bible that blatantly refute such claim. God gave His only begotten Son to the world (all generations) once and for all and no other ‘Christ’ (irrespective of their generation) can save – John 14: 1-6, John 10: 1-14.

By inconsistencies I am assuming you are referring to different translations. No one manuscript or translation is inspired, only the original – hence the criterion of granting it is a Bible. However, for all intents and purposes, they are virtually inspired since, with today's great number of manuscripts available for scrutiny, the science of textual criticism can render us an adequate representation. Therefore, we can be assured that when we read the Bible we are reading the inspired Word of God.
Also, it is of monumental importance to identify the extent of inspiration to include every book of Scripture, each part of every book, and every word in each book as given in the original – which include both OT and NT.




Perhaps, we all have to open our heart to what had already been given (2000 years ago), may be just then and only then would we be able to discover , decode, listen and apply the message that God has for this day and age.

More questions:

1. Where do you get the idea that Jesus was the only son of God when there are in fact three people mentioned in the Bible that are called by the same title?
2. If you say that there have been no other "Christs" besides Jesus, then how do you account for two other Christs mentioned in the Old Testement? (one mentioned in Hebrews and the other one mentioned in Genesis)
3. Why do you claim that the Bible is the complete, inspired Word of God when even biblical scholars and your Bible itself would not admit that?
4. How do you account for the scriptures and verses that even your BIble admits were added at a later date?
5. When did Jesus ever refer to himself as being the son of God?

[J3D]

Originally Posted by eby187

I am not saying you should abandon your bible or reject your bible. In fact, I love my bible. I try and read it as much as possible. It contains a lot of valuable insights on how to live a godly life. HOwever, limiting God's wisdom and knowledge to scriptures that were written thousands of years ago by a specific group of pple, and that has been through additions and substractions and numerous translations since then, to me, isn't sensible or wise. New revelations/update revelations appear to pple at different times and place in history according to the level of thier consciousness. I am not saying throw away ur bible, I am just saying there is updated knowledge for pple with a higher level or awareness and consciousness in this day and age. Just open your heart and listen and don't condemn everything that isn't "biblical", which is what most christians tend to do.

I use KJV and NIV. I do not advocate open-mindedness at least not in this sense. I strive to be sound-minded otherwise the guy down the street could say God is speaking through a bamboo tree in his backyard and you might be too open-minded to build a temple of worship in his backyard. I believe God is in the business of presenting the ALREADY manifested truth to the world (depending and regardless of which dispensation you belong) – John 14-6 (KJV)

The important thing is to understand and acknowledge that God inspired the 66 books of the Bible. If you need a message from God for this day and age, it can only be found in His written word through the exposition or illumination by His Spirit.

[eby187]

Originally Posted by J3D

I use KJV and NIV. I do not advocate open-mindedness at least not in this sense. I strive to be sound-minded otherwise the guy down the street could say God is speaking through a bamboo tree in his backyard and you might be too open-minded to build a temple of worship in his backyard. I believe God is in the business of presenting the ALREADY manifested truth to the world (depending and regardless of which dispensation you belong) – John 14-6 (KJV)

The important thing is to understand and acknowledge that God inspired the 66 books of the Bible. If you need a message from God for this day and age, it can only be found in His written word through the exposition or illumination by His Spirit.

The last part of your sentence, I must exclaim is balogne! and plz don't take offense. What you just wrote condemns anyone who is non-christian or jewish as being lost souls or following a wrong message. If sticking to the bible and only the bible for God to reveal his wisdom to you is what gives you purpose, that's your choice, your free will and I respect that. I am finished with trying to convince you otherwise. I think the fear you have and many christians have is that if the wander from the bible, they may end up following a false doctrine. But you only think this way because you look at sthing outside yourself for spiritual security. Spiritual security can only be found within through your connection with the one above. A person who is connected to the God within will not set up a bamboo tree and worship it in the backyard. A person will not also look at the church, a doctrine, a pastor, a book or anything else outside of themselves to reveal everything there is to know abt. a person's relationship (that is supposed to be personal) with the God who created them.

[J3D]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Interesting write up. Got a couple of quesitons for you though:

1. When did the BIble become infallible? Before or after the Council of Nicea?
2. Do you think that the people who's writings got included in the Bible thought that their words were infallible and perfect?
3. How do imperfect men create something perfect?
4. Does divine inspiration automatically mean divine translation? How much of the Bible is of God and how much of it has been tainted by the egos of the writers?
5. When you refer to the infallible Bible, which one are you referring to? The Catholic one? The Protestant One? The Ethiopian One? The Orthodox one?
6. Did God also inspire slavery, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, Colonialism, and other events that were orchestrated by people who also felt that the Bible was infallible?
7. How do you account for the inexcusable contradictions found all over the Bible?
8. Would anything really change if the Bible was not the inerrant Word of God?

Good questions.

First of all, I do not intend to engage in a futile argument just because in the end I don’t think they are profitable or productive.

Secondly, for this conversation sake, my reference to passages in the Bible will be from KJV. I will not comment on any gospels outside the 66 books.

Question: Do you know everything that there is to know in or about the Bible?

Please, respond accordingly to the question and comment.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by J3D

Good questions.

First of all, I do not intend to engage in a futile argument just because in the end I don’t think they are profitable or productive.

Secondly, for this conversation sake, my reference to passages in the Bible will be from KJV. I will not comment on any gospels outside the 66 books.

Question: Do you know everything that there is to know in or about the Bible?

Please, respond accordingly to the question and comment.

Who said anything about arguing? I just wanted you to give your response on some very basic questions. I don't think that is too much to ask is it? A mentality of not asking questions is not a healthy one to have. And until you can answer some of my questions, it wouldnt' be fair for me to respond to your question