Is Ubuntu the new Debian?

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 03:04 PM

Based on the number of Ubuntu based as opposed to Debian based distros popping up, I guess that the article below needs to be viewed as valid...

So Ubuntu and Linspire have declared their intention to work together toward their common goal of making Linux Universal. You can read the press release here.

Now that you are done reading with that, read the story at desktop linux.

I read them yesterday, and allowed myself a day to think about it. Here are some thoughts, in no specific order, and with no specific intention:

1. I don’t think Linspire’s primary motivation is to make Desktop Linux popular. I think it is to make a profit. So the “popularize Linux” common goal stops with Freespire, Linspire’s step-brother
2. Ubuntu is now “upstream” for a whole bunch of distros - each with a different kind of users. “Upstreaming” bugs from Ubuntu to Debian and to the individual packages’ bugtrackers is a really painful process and has been so. The upstreaming problem might get worse with Ubuntu having to deal with bugs from downstream too, about which little can be done except to upstream them to Debain, since that’s how Ubuntu tries to minimize the delta with Debian
3. Linspire jsut seems to come out the winner in this deal. Ubuntu benefits only by having access to a not-yet-built CNR.com
4. Mark says in the press release that the CNR system is open - well it is not entirely open source - only the client software is open source. I suppose he meant open as in open for access and use.
5. Even without the agreement cnr.com would have been usable by Ubuntu users, if I am not missing anything big
6. The fundamental assumption is that restricted decoders, plugins and apps will now be available “legally” after you pay some money. I’d like to see if this actually turns out that way - that is, to see if w32codecs, libdvdcss2 etc are made available. A cursory search of the current cnr website did not yield these packages - maybe they are just called something else
7. Ubuntu will now have to face the problems that the software people installed using CNR will create - since the tie-up is official, one can’t say, “well, we don’t support packages from external repositories in the Ubuntu bug tracker

Yes, I am a pessimist, but in thinking about the worst case we find comfort in things that work out well. I hope this was the right decision to make. I can’t forget, however, that there is no way one can stop anyone from using the repositories that Ubuntu’s developers and users garden. It’s probably too early to say it, but I’ll say it anyway — Ubuntu is the New Debian.

Source

kulata · 03-13-2007, 03:14 PM

Isn't Ubuntu itself based on Debian?

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulata

Isn't Ubuntu itself based on Debian?

Yes it is, but this is a case of the son becoming greater than the father, and I'll tell you why:

Ubuntu took the Debian model and made it more professional. The pace of development in Debian has always been glacial at best. Ubuntu was having none of that, hence people now look to Ubuntu as the flagship of the *.deb world...

kulata · 03-13-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

Yes it is, but this is a case of the son becoming greater than the father, and I'll tell you why:

Ubuntu took the Debian model and made it more professional. The pace of development in Debian has always been glacial at best. Ubuntu was having none of that, hence people now look to Ubuntu as the flagship of the *.deb world...

OK

Always stayed off Debian those days. How is the Fedora project doing. I think that was the last one I used and yeah Mandrake

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 03:29 PM

The *.rpm guys used to have a champion in OpenSuse, but ever since that deal between Micro$0ft and Novell, there has been a slight shift (based on disillusionment), and Ubuntu and Fedora have been the big winners in that deal...

kulata · 03-13-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

The *.rpm guys used to have a champion in OpenSuse, but ever since that deal between Micro$0ft and Novell, there has been a slight shift (based on disillusionment), and Ubuntu and Fedora have been the big winners in that deal...

But Red Hat spareheaded rpm (red hat package manager) and most people like Suse, Caldera and co followed suit. And the shift you are referring to isn't really a shift. Its just non-business users staying true to the community coz Fedora and Ubuntu are still volunteer projects to a large extent. Business users won't be messing around with Fedora or Ubuntu, they'd rather buy Enterprise server/workstation from Red Hat/Novell/Turbolinux/Mandriva etc etc with Vendor support or service support from likes of IBM, Oracle, HP

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 04:02 PM

I think you need to monitor the activities on Distrowatch...

In any event, the market that everyone is interested in trying to conquer nowadays is the desktop market, then the Ubuntu Server edition is making inroads into RedHat territory...

rush3k · 03-13-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

Yes it is, but this is a case of the son becoming greater than the father, and I'll tell you why:

Ubuntu took the Debian model and made it more professional. The pace of development in Debian has always been glacial at best. Ubuntu was having none of that, hence people now look to Ubuntu as the flagship of the *.deb world...

Ubuntu's six-month development cycle has its good and bad parts.

rush3k · 03-13-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

I think you need to monitor the activities on Distrowatch...

In any event, the market that everyone is interested in trying to conquer nowadays is the desktop market, then the Ubuntu Server edition is making inroads into RedHat territory...

Again, no serious network admin will want a software product with a new release twice a year because of support. Most of them are looking to CentOS, which is based on RHEL.

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rush3k

Again, no serious network admin will want a software product with a new release twice a year because of support. Most of them are looking to CentOS, which is based on RHEL.

$ gksu “update-manager -c -d”

The upgrade process is seamless, so what were you saying about serious network admins?

kulata · 03-13-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

I think you need to monitor the activities on Distrowatch...

In any event, the market that everyone is interested in trying to conquer nowadays is the desktop market, then the Ubuntu Server edition is making inroads into RedHat territory...

Getting two out of one thousand accounts is still regarded as making inroads. If what you are refering to is the home user desktop market then Ubuntu should be able to become a major player but when it comes to business desktops they need a big vendor (IBM, Oracle and other services company etc) to back them with support before they make a significant dent in that area.

**Lucky** · 03-13-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

$ gksu “update-manager -c -d”

The upgrade process is seamless, so what were you saying about serious network admins?

Are you minding him? I've been using Kubuntu edgy distro and my machine has been running much more smoother. Easy install, upgrade was flawless, perfect for developers, anything and everything you need you can add.

rush3k · 03-13-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chxta

$ gksu “update-manager -c -d”

The upgrade process is seamless, so what were you saying about serious network admins?

i'm talking of support. it will be foolhardy to assume a seamless upgrade means you have a perfectly working system with fewer bugs than before.

rush3k · 03-13-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky

Are you minding him? I've been using Kubuntu edgy distro and my machine has been running much more smoother. Easy install, upgrade was flawless, perfect for developers, anything and everything you need you can add.

in comparison to what? dont get me wrong, i'm talking about support. i've used ubuntu since hoary in 2004 ... dapper is the first one with a longer term support than a few months.

Chxta · 03-13-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rush3k

i'm talking of support. it will be foolhardy to assume a seamless upgrade means you have a perfectly working system with fewer bugs than before.

www.ubuntuforums.com

03-13-2007, 03:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
Chxta Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: 3rd rock from the Sun Posts: 8,541 Points: 9,667.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,667.30 Donate Rep Power: 21474863	Is Ubuntu the new Debian? Based on the number of Ubuntu based as opposed to Debian based distros popping up, I guess that the article below needs to be viewed as valid... So Ubuntu and Linspire have declared their intention to work together toward their common goal of making Linux Universal. You can read the press release here. Now that you are done reading with that, read the story at desktop linux. I read them yesterday, and allowed myself a day to think about it. Here are some thoughts, in no specific order, and with no specific intention: 1. I don’t think Linspire’s primary motivation is to make Desktop Linux popular. I think it is to make a profit. So the “popularize Linux” common goal stops with Freespire, Linspire’s step-brother 2. Ubuntu is now “upstream” for a whole bunch of distros - each with a different kind of users. “Upstreaming” bugs from Ubuntu to Debian and to the individual packages’ bugtrackers is a really painful process and has been so. The upstreaming problem might get worse with Ubuntu having to deal with bugs from downstream too, about which little can be done except to upstream them to Debain, since that’s how Ubuntu tries to minimize the delta with Debian 3. Linspire jsut seems to come out the winner in this deal. Ubuntu benefits only by having access to a not-yet-built CNR.com 4. Mark says in the press release that the CNR system is open - well it is not entirely open source - only the client software is open source. I suppose he meant open as in open for access and use. 5. Even without the agreement cnr.com would have been usable by Ubuntu users, if I am not missing anything big 6. The fundamental assumption is that restricted decoders, plugins and apps will now be available “legally” after you pay some money. I’d like to see if this actually turns out that way - that is, to see if w32codecs, libdvdcss2 etc are made available. A cursory search of the current cnr website did not yield these packages - maybe they are just called something else 7. Ubuntu will now have to face the problems that the software people installed using CNR will create - since the tie-up is official, one can’t say, “well, we don’t support packages from external repositories in the Ubuntu bug tracker Yes, I am a pessimist, but in thinking about the worst case we find comfort in things that work out well. I hope this was the right decision to make. I can’t forget, however, that there is no way one can stop anyone from using the repositories that Ubuntu’s developers and users garden. It’s probably too early to say it, but I’ll say it anyway — Ubuntu is the New Debian. Source __________________ I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.

03-13-2007, 03:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
kulata Ladies Love Uncle Kuli Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Right beside Iya Alamala Posts: 36,783 Points: 6,160.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 6,160.00 Donate Rep Power: 1007408	Isn't Ubuntu itself based on Debian? __________________

03-13-2007, 03:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Chxta Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: 3rd rock from the Sun Posts: 8,541 Points: 9,667.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,667.30 Donate Rep Power: 21474863	The *.rpm guys used to have a champion in OpenSuse, but ever since that deal between Micro$0ft and Novell, there has been a slight shift (based on disillusionment), and Ubuntu and Fedora have been the big winners in that deal... __________________ I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.

03-13-2007, 04:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Chxta Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: 3rd rock from the Sun Posts: 8,541 Points: 9,667.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 9,667.30 Donate Rep Power: 21474863	I think you need to monitor the activities on Distrowatch... In any event, the market that everyone is interested in trying to conquer nowadays is the desktop market, then the Ubuntu Server edition is making inroads into RedHat territory... __________________ I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.

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