Did Eve ever have a chance?

[BlueBeauty]

Was just wondering. I mean Eve was literally a baby, the first woman on the planet, how could she compute what’s going on around her? I can just imagine her a tad disorientated, as she slowly becomes conscious and hears -“Welcome to earth. I am God, I made you. He’s Adam. This is your garden. I love you. You worship me & obey me, if you fail one test, you’re toast, if you eat this fruit, you’ll die.” So, in that moment, she is suppose to get it? Like her brain cells, synapses & neurons aren’t even dry yet & she’s going to understand perfectly these instructions? How intelligent was Eve? How primitive was she? How were these first two humans on the planet suppose to even know what a God is?

And if that was Paradise, what was a talking satanic snake doing there?

Sometimes I just wonder about theses things, fact or fable I wonder why God would create beings and set them up to fail. Then have to send himself down to reconcile us onto him & still leave humanity with all this confusion and uncertainly.

[Onyiiboy]

The story was a symbolic one. Read it again and it will be clear. And if you refuse to believe me, then you should explain why there are TWO creations of man and woman: Genesis 1:26-27 and Genesis 2:4-8

[superego]

You missed the entire format.
You totally failed to understand the creation theme, and why man is man.

Man is man, greater than angels cuz we know.
We know. God loaded us and we know. It's all in our minds! That's why man is man. We have what angels dont have being in Gods image. Thats the greatness of us. That's what God proudly so to say, displayed to the angels to prove to them that we were his best leader creations and vicergents for Earth.

From the jump man had Gods great differentiating attribute, discernability',

When God made Adam/Man.

The angels questioned what man had over them, as God made him to be His preferred Vicergent.

#1. What test did God give Adam to prove his superiority over the angels, that Adam accomplished, and the angels(but Lucifer) bowed in respect and amazement?.....................

#2. And what will you say is the key lesson/word/principle ability of man illustrated by this most important challenge?....................

ANSWER, {GOD KNOWS BEST}:

**!!!DISCERNABILITY!!!**

Yes, discernability.
God asked man to name all that was, and man was able, to say-"that is 'angels', 'flower', 'cows', 'fishes".
etc. The angels were bewildered, because they as different from man, and more like animals, have absolutely NO MIND OF THEIR OWN, they only hear and speak, like robots. Man could determine the names. AND THAT IS OUR SUPERIORITY, BEING IN THE IMAGE OF GOD!!!...able to HAVE 'IDEA' Like a computer, we can extrapolate.


THE BOOK OF JUBILEE http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...ubilees1_9.htm

"[Chapter 3]....And on the six days of the second week we brought, according to the word of God, unto Adam all the beasts, and all the cattle, and all the birds, and everything that moves on the earth, and everything that moves in the water, according to their kinds, and according to their types: the beasts on the first day; the cattle on the second day; the birds on the third day; and all that which moves on the earth on the fourth day; and that which moves in the water on the fifth day.
2 And Adam named them all by their respective names, and as he called them, so was their name....


SIMILAR DETAIL VERSION IN KORAN: CHAPTER 2: VS 30-33
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_d...ranslator=5#31
31 And He taught Adam all the names (of everything) , then He showed them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful."
32 They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise." O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names


SO AS A SUMMARY, EVE IS AS LOADED AS THE BEST SCIENTIST OR RELIGIONIST IS TODAY WITH THE SAME FEAR AND ABILITY NEEDED TO COPE WITH EARTH. MAN HAS IN IN HIM INHERRENT INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY AND LOADED FILES, BE HE EVEN MAD. LIKE A CHICK BORN, WHO KNOWS TO RUN FROM A SOARING EAGLE EVEN THOUGH IT WAS BRED IN ISOLATION.



...

[superego]

Another point u need to struggle to comprehend is that we are all Adam! Eve a clone of Adam is Adam too. We are all at that ignorant as u call it, begining of creation point and as well, we all die at the end of time. Eve didnt have it any more challenging than we do, cuz we are she. afterall we all have the 'Adam apple' even. Einstein sat and discovered and other scientists too. When asked, they all said it was from their insides...inspiration, not from without.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by superego

Another point u need to struggle to comprehend is that we are all Adam! Eve a clone of Adam is Adam too. We are all at that ignorant as u call it, begining of creation point and as well, we all die at the end of time. Eve didnt have it any more challenging than we do, cuz we are she. afterall we all have the 'Adam apple' even. Einstein sat and discovered and other scientists too. When asked, they all said it was from their insides...inspiration, not from without.

Everyday people commit the exact same "sin" that "Adam and Eve" did.

[Cleopatra]

Originally Posted by BlueBeauty

Was just wondering. I mean Eve was literally a baby, the first woman on the planet, how could she compute what’s going on around her? I can just imagine her a tad disorientated, as she slowly becomes conscious and hears -“Welcome to earth. I am God, I made you. He’s Adam. This is your garden. I love you. You worship me & obey me, if you fail one test, you’re toast, if you eat this fruit, you’ll die.” So, in that moment, she is suppose to get it? Like her brain cells, synapses & neurons aren’t even dry yet & she’s going to understand perfectly these instructions? How intelligent was Eve? How primitive was she? How were these first two humans on the planet suppose to even know what a God is?

And if that was Paradise, what was a talking satanic snake doing there?

Sometimes I just wonder about theses things, fact or fable I wonder why God would create beings and set them up to fail. Then have to send himself down to reconcile us onto him & still leave humanity with all this confusion and uncertainly.

I dnt think eve was a baby, sha had free will so she could have chosen not to listen to the serpent's deception. She did what we all do sometimes these days ... refuse to listen to God.

And for once.... I actually agree with Superego on the note that man is equipped and blessed with intelligent knowledge and discernment.

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by Cleopatra

I dnt think eve was a baby, sha had free will so she could have chosen not to listen to the serpent's deception. She did what we all do sometimes these days ... refuse to listen to God.

And for once.... I actually agree with Superego on the note that man is equipped and blessed with intelligent knowledge and discernment.

Did you skip the part where I said that the story was symbolic or are you one of those folks who thinks that Genesis is the literal truth and that Eve was made out of one of Adam's ribs?

[superego]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

Did you skip the part where I said that the story was symbolic or are you one of those folks who thinks that Genesis is the literal truth and that Eve was made out of one of Adam's ribs?

I would say it was also as real as can be.

I have argued that Eve was the first clone in the true sense of it. Quite right it is symbolic, but as per a leader in all Scientists aspirations. Scientists clone rats from stem cells obtainable from places like long bones and Ribs, so I believe God made Eve easily and more trully a part of Adam in flesh and bone from cloning her from his rib stem cells, and adding nothing, but deleting something, the 'Y' chromosome while simply duplicating the 'X' chromosome--> XX. We are 100% from eachother, but man has a tad bit more.

Why mold a seperate being....and if some kind of evolution pathway taking ages was set up to lead to Adam, why do same for Eve? When there's cloning?

If He made Eve from any single new material, we wouldnt trully be able to claim as is generelly done, that God made man...but twould be- 'God made man and another man'. No longer- 'We all came from Adam', but 'We all came from 2.

Make the 2 - 1, remember(Gospel of Thomas) Eve, the first clone...and only clone of human beings that will ever be.

[KAG]

Originally Posted by superego

I would say it was also as real as can be.

I have argued that Eve was the first clone in the true sense of it. Quite right it is symbolic, but as per a leader in all Scientists aspirations. Scientists clone rats from stem cells obtainable from places like long bones and Ribs, so I believe God made Eve easily and more trully a part of Adam in flesh and bone from cloning her from his rib stem cells, and adding nothing, but deleting something, the 'Y' chromosome while simply duplicating the 'X' chromosome--> XX. We are 100% from eachother, but man has a tad bit more.

Why mold a seperate being....and if some kind of evolution pathway taking ages was set up to lead to Adam, why do same for Eve? When there's cloning?

If He made Eve from any single new material, we wouldnt trully be able to claim as is generelly done, that God made man...but twould be- 'God made man and another man'. No longer- 'We all came from Adam', but 'We all came from 2.

Make the 2 - 1, remember(Gospel of Thomas) Eve, the first clone...and only clone of human beings that will ever be.

Setting aside all objections to the idea of a clone, I'd like to ask you some questions if you don't mind:

First, if that was indeed the mode of creation, then why doesn't the evidence show that? The evidence points to evolution from other species. And it's not just evolution from other species, but it's evolution as described by the theory of evolution, i.e. a population not individuals and not a bottleneck of two.

Second, are you aware of what could happen to offsprings of siblings? Don't you think there would be more of an effect on the progeny of clones?

Third, how do you reconcile the belief of woman coming from man with the fact that it's the other way round in reality (that is all start off as females, or something like females, in the womb)?

[superego]

KAG

1.From what I have read, most current material(Steven Olson's, "Mapping Human History"), it is rather the Bottleneck effect or the founder effect that man arose from, having a single parent(Adam) lineage from the Middle East/Ethiopia area, and the prior thoughts of some apeish funny creatures claimed to be mans precursors that u probablly speaking of, who were about a million distributed across the world, were described as 'a bad end of evolution', and all faded out allowing the well developed centuries earlier founder Adam from the Mid East area to spread round. So what material are u reading?


2.If u analysed creation well and possibilities, mathematically speaking, the reason why directed evolution/intelligent design is being embraced by intelligent scientists is because, the probability of 2 of a specie, male and female, co-evolving to be able to mate at the same time is less than 0.00000000000000001. So If Adam evolved into male man, the possibility of a female pre-man also evolving at the same time into an Eve, is impossible, so the first man would have been without spouse, and so also a first Ape-like being turned woman. Same goes for all species, exept if hybrid sterilization wasnt true, and Adam(first man) mated with ape-ish beings in transition, and there would be many fossils of Adams and Eves who got developed and didnt have co-spouses who developed along at same pace, so died out. So Eve must have been made when Adam was fully cooked.

[KAG]

Originally Posted by superego

KAG

1.From what I have read, most current material(Steven Olson's, "Mapping Human History"), it is rather the Bottleneck effect or the founder effect that man arose from, having a single parent(Adam) lineage from the Middle East/Ethiopia area, and the prior thoughts of some apeish funny creatures claimed to be mans precursors that u probablly speaking of, who were about a million distributed across the world, were described as 'a bad end of evolution', and all faded out allowing the well developed centuries earlier founder Adam from the Mid East area to spread round. So what material are u reading?

You've read wrong or you've misunderstood Olson's words.

First, yes there was a bottle neck, but it wasn't a bottleneck of one man and woman. There was a small population of men and women.

Second, humans didn't have a single parent per se: as I mentioned before, there were several males at the time, but "none of the male lines from them survived down to the present." (here)

Third, I have a feeling you're talking about Neanderthal (sp?) man. If you are, then you should know Neanderthals weren't "a bad end of evolution" (I'm not sure "a bad end of evolution" makes sense), they were just most likely slaughtered by human ancestors.

2.If u analysed creation well and possibilities, mathematically speaking, the reason why directed evolution/intelligent design is being embraced by intelligent scientists is because,

Last I checked, most of the intelligent scientists aren't embracing intelligent design.

the probability of 2 of a specie, male and female, co-evolving to be able to mate at the same time is less than 0.00000000000000001.

You'd have to show how you worked that out. By the way, evolution is population, not individuals.

So If Adam evolved into male man, the possibility of a female pre-man also evolving at the same time into an Eve, is impossible, so the first man would have been without spouse, and so also a first Ape-like being turned woman. Same goes for all species, exept if hybrid sterilization wasnt true, and Adam(first man) mated with ape-ish beings in transition, and there would be many fossils of Adams and Eves who got developed and didnt have co-spouses who developed along at same pace, so died out. So Eve must have been made when Adam was fully cooked.

First, sexes/gender wouldn't have evolved just because of humans or at the rise of humans. No, sexes would, and can be seen, in the ancestors of humans.

Secondly, yes, human ancestors most likely had sex with the species that had separated from; that is they mated with the ancestor of chimps (I think) after the chimp ancestor had separated from the species humans had also separated from (I hope that makes sense, and I hope it's right).

Thirdly, population, not individuals.


By the way, you didn't answer my questions.

Anyway, I have one more to add:

Cloning, as we know it, involves the recreation of the exact genes of a being into another being (or something along those lines); however, the recreated being always, so far and for good reason, starts off as a youngling, never an adult. How do you reconcile that with your belief?

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by superego

I would say it was also as real as can be.

I have argued that Eve was the first clone in the true sense of it. Quite right it is symbolic, but as per a leader in all Scientists aspirations. Scientists clone rats from stem cells obtainable from places like long bones and Ribs, so I believe God made Eve easily and more trully a part of Adam in flesh and bone from cloning her from his rib stem cells, and adding nothing, but deleting something, the 'Y' chromosome while simply duplicating the 'X' chromosome--> XX. We are 100% from eachother, but man has a tad bit more.

Why mold a seperate being....and if some kind of evolution pathway taking ages was set up to lead to Adam, why do same for Eve? When there's cloning?

If He made Eve from any single new material, we wouldnt trully be able to claim as is generelly done, that God made man...but twould be- 'God made man and another man'. No longer- 'We all came from Adam', but 'We all came from 2.

Make the 2 - 1, remember(Gospel of Thomas) Eve, the first clone...and only clone of human beings that will ever be.

You do realize that male and female were created twice in Genesis?

[eby187]

Originally Posted by Onyiiboy

You do realize that male and female were created twice in Genesis?

That's because there were 2 versions of the story circulating at the time and the author decided to combine the two. At least that's what i learned in my history of christianity class at college.

[BlueBeauty]

@ Onyiiboy, Dude they weren’t created twice it’s 2 version of the same story, if they were created twice then so was the earth and the animals.
Now to your point bout about it being symbolic, I cant see how you could extrapolate that idea from the bible, many instances and quotes in latter chapters make mention of them 2 committing the first sin and how all have falling because of their sin, and because we all came from them.

Now, not believing the we all came from Adam & Eve as told in the bible, is it too far fetched to think that only descendants of Adam & Eve actually need salvation? I mean one can make a case for that come to think of it, maybe then that 144,000 saved in the book of revelation would make sense?

And I did not miss the point superero, our knowledge and understanding accumulates from years of aquiring that knowledge, unless it is proven that acquired knowledge and awareness is passed on thru cloning I disagree with your theory here, I also disagree that Eve was a clone. A clone is an exact copy. Eve had many different artributes.

@ cleo, having free will doesn’t mean you truly know or understand what is right from what is wrong. Toddlers have free will but when you tell them not to stick a fork in an electrical socket cause they will be electrocuted they don’t get it. Yet, ask a 5 year old, who has been electrocuted before to do it, the kid will say “you first!”

[Onyiiboy]

Originally Posted by eby187

That's because there were 2 versions of the story circulating at the time and the author decided to combine the two. At least that's what i learned in my history of christianity class at college.

There were FAR more than 2 versions of the story going around at the time (ever culture had their own version) , but this particular version was allegedly lifted from a Babylonian tale.